User talk:Feran Derethi

Welcome!

Hello Feran Derethi! Welcome to UESPWiki! It's always good to have new members. If you would like to help improve any of our pages, you may want to take a look at the following links:

• Policies and Guidelines: UESPWiki standards and expectations
• Help Contents: a list of in-depth Help pages
• Quick Editing Guide: a quick guide to wiki markup
• Getting Started: how you can help
• Uploading Images: Guidelines on image standardization

If you would like to spice up your userpage, click here for a list of userboxes you can use, including a guide to making your own.

When you're editing, it's always a good idea to leave edit summaries to explain the changes you have made to a particular page, and remember to sign your talk page posts with four tildes ~~~~. Also, the "show preview" button is a great way to view the changes you've made so far without actually saving the page (our patrollers really appreciate it!).

Please consider supporting the UESP elsewhere on the web:

• Facebook: our official Facebook page.
• Tumblr: our official Tumblr blog.
• Twitch: our official Twitch channel.
• Twitter: our official Twitter account.
• YouTube: our official YouTube channel.

Feel free to practice editing in the sandbox. If you would like to discuss the games or lore, consider checking out our blog, our Discord, or the forums. If you need any help, don't hesitate to contact one of our mentors. Lastly, thanks once again for joining the UESPWiki, have fun! Jeancey (talk) 17:08, 13 February 2020 (GMT)

Image Aspect Ratio

Good afternoon! I noticed you've replaced several images. The image quality is great, but please keep in mind that NPC images should have a 1:1 aspect ratio. For example, if the image is 800 pixels tall, the width should also be 800 pixels wide. I appreciate all the quality work you've done on Dunmer-related pages, and I hope you have a great day! --MolagBallet (talk) 20:36, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Thank you for the heads up! I'm still new to the image/file pages, so I'm learning as I go. I'll definitely make sure that the images are 1:1 aspect ratio from now on. And thank you for your kind words. I'm glad that I've been able to help some of those pages. --Feran Derethi (talk) 20:40, 4 August 2020 (UTC)

Indoril Concept Art

Out of curiosity, where is it specified that the concept art of an Indoril on the Lore page for House Indoril is actually an Indoril? In the Morrowind concept art page, the same image is described as an Ordinator, not an Indoril.--ThomasTheWest (talk) 22:38, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

After double-checking the concept art source, it appears that it is in fact a depiction of an Ordinator, and not an Indoril. My mistake. The image and caption predate my overhaul of the House Indoril page and thus it was simply a carryover from whomever placed it there to begin with. Personally, I'd just as soon leave it for the sake of it being a concept depiction of the TESIII "Indoril armor" version of the armor that remained on the page regardless. --Feran Derethi (talk) 23:08, 17 January 2021 (UTC)

Oblivion Crisis

I understand you want to make the Arano account just as creditable, its fine with it being noted at least or mentioned, but there is a reason months back it was changed to match the actual events of TES 4 as that is the prime canon of how it actually went down. Arano's account isn't creditable and in actuality a fully false account of what went down. The Events of TES 4 contradict the claims Arano made in Plot and Dialogue. That is why Ocato's account is treated as the primary true account on the page. Because it actually is the true account of events and it matches up with the entire plot of you having to find reinforcements elsewhere in Tes 4. The True account is no outside legion reinforcements came from any Province period, including Morrowind to help Cyrodiil. Otherwise you would not have had to go through the trouble of going to the various cities to gain reinforcements for Bruma. I hope you understand, the reasons why I reverted these changes.TheVampKnight (talk) 08:36, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

The other account, even if false, should be mentioned and not necessarily reduced to a note so that an in-universe perspective can be seen. If it contradicts what we see in the games, we should note that the account is false. We would put something like "Some people believe... however, this account is false, etc."Zebendal (talk) 08:43, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

The Elder Scrolls as a franchise is riddled with inconsistencies and contradictions, and in the vast majority of UESP pages I have browsed over the last 11 years, both sides of the story are typically mentioned and the areas in which they contradict are either reconciled, or equally noted. In some cases I've even seen the approach of more recent lore overriding older lore when in direct conflict, in which case Dragonborn is more credible than Oblivion. Yes, in TESIV it is made abundantly clear that no aid was coming from the other provinces. However, Ocato says this in the ``middle`` of the Crisis while it was still ongoing. Adril Arano's claim is made ``200 years`` after the fact. Arano would've had a historical hindsight of the whole event that Ocato would not have had in the chaotic middle of it. It's also ludicrous to simply dismiss Adril Arano's account as false when the Empire's withdrawal of troops from Morrowind are the direct result of A) Why Morrowind is no longer part of the Empire, B) House Hlaalu losing power and being dismissed as a Great House due to their collaboration with the Empire now that it was gone, and C) The entire reason House Redoran was able to create the army that held off Dagon's Daedra and later the Argonians, and why they're now the eminent power in modern Morrowind. Those are some pretty darn big historical events to happen as a direct result of the Empire pulling its troops out of Morrowind during the Oblivion Crisis. Arano's account is, at the very least, not some lie or fabrication he invented in the spur of the moment. The fact that Summerset and Black Marsh also fended off Dagon's Daedra alone and then promptly left the Empire in the aftermath of the Crisis lends further credence to the possibility that at least SOME Legions were pulled out of the provinces before the Crisis was over. What Ocato said might have been true in the middle of the Crisis, but it very clearly wasn't fully true by the end of the Crisis. At the end of the day, all I'm saying is that Ocato isn't any more credible than Arano (both are just NPCs with passing remarks on the matter) and I truly think dismissing Arano as false is simply foolish and, quite frankly, biased. I believe both should be mentioned (as they are now) without outright calling one or the other false. Feran Derethi (talk) 14:44, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

I can see where you're coming from, but it's important to remember events we personally saw happened. The Oblivion Crisis began and ended within the main questline of The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion. This is something you can experience. It's not just a case of Ocato's word against that of Adril. Ocato tells us reinforcements are not going to come, and then reinforcements do not come. It's not just a claim from Ocato, the lack of relief during the Oblivion Crisis for Cyrodiil is simply provable. As another example, Skyrim has a book that has the Thalmor claim to be responsible for ending the Oblivion Crisis. We KNOW that is not true, we were there. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 14:59, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

We were one individual in one province, to assume that everything we saw was the reality of things is simply not feasible. If we go by that measure, the Battle of Bruma consisted of less than 15 soldiers against the Daedra horde, and Mehrunes Dagon invaded the Imperial City with even less warriors than that. In the Infernal City by Greg Keyes, Attrebus Mede tells the story of Captain Tertius Ione who built up a small fortification around an Oblivion Gate, recruited local farmers, and charged into it. This would've happened during the events of TESIV while we ourselves were running around Cyrodiil, and we don't see this. Does that suddenly mean that the story is fabrication that shouldn't be considered truth because we "saw with our own eyes" that it didn't happen? The Oblivion Crisis was a continental event, chaotic and destructive. Information and communication at the time would have been unreliable and sparse, and coordination would have been nearly nonexistent. Another source (a historical book, more credible than an individual's word) tells of Imperial troops pulling out of their current posting and being recalled to Cyrodiil - so recalls did verifiably occur. "When the Oblivion Crisis arose in 3E 433, Raven Rock remained largely untouched by Mehrunes Dagon's forces and work continued as usual. The bulk of the Imperial Guard that was stationed in Raven Rock was recalled to Cyrodiil to fight the invading forces, but a few soldiers remained behind in order to protect the ebony mine from bandits." - History of Raven Rock, Vol. I The fact of the matter is that troops were recalled to Cyrodiil, corroborated by multiple sources, as well as direct historical events that subsequently occurred as a result of that, and what we see isn't always the full reality of every detail around us. Games have limitations, and we aren't omnipresent.Feran Derethi (talk) 15:13, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Basically what happened was Ocato pleaded for Troops, but the Generals basically refused or advised against it, but not only that but the rest of the Legions reality were engaged in the Crisis, and then there was the political situation. Which made him or the others decide, they can't be called back, and he made the choice that Cyrodiil had to fend for itself basically. This is the dialogue, and what it says exactly.

"This is terrible news. Under normal circumstances, I would dispatch a legion or two to Bruma immediately. But the circumstances are not normal, are they? I've been pleading for troops for Cyrodiil for weeks, but the generals assure me that the entire Imperial Army is already fully committed. Besides... I'd have a full-scale political crisis on my hands if I tried to pull any troops out of the provinces. I'm sorry, but the cities of Cyrodiil will have to fend for themselves for the time being."

He also said time being which means it might be possible some got called back after the events that happened at Bruma but we don't have exact sourcing as to when a recall happened. So we can't list it as such unless they create a source or a time table as to what exactly happened. It couldn't have happened until after the Battle for Bruma, the canon is very clear on this, but you are right that we don't see everything because of gameplay limitations. Either way those defending in the defense of Bruma were all locals from the province, and recalls if they did happen do not change that fact. But I do think the story of Captain Tertius Ione should be listed on the Crisis page. Even though we didn't see it that is a pretty neat tale that should be known at least. Also AKB is right about the Thalmor as they did claim and take credit for ending the Crisis, we know they did not end the Crisis. So that is why we should rely on the accounts of the TES 4 Game as its the most accurate telling of the Crisis. The players of TES 4 get to experience it first hand, without that one person, Mehrunes Dagon would have won and Tamriel would have been doomed, and that one hero pretty much did save all of Tamriel by helping Martin fulfill his destiny, there is a reason why that hero got their own lore book in TES 5 Skyrim. TheVampKnight (talk) 16:50, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

I've never disputed that what Ocato said wasn't true at the time he said it. I know full well that there weren't any Legions available to assist during the Battle of Bruma and prior, but that doesn't mean that the situation didn't change after that point and we simply did not get to see it. What I'm arguing for is simply that both accounts be appropriately listed without denouncing one or the other as false, because the fact of the matter is that neither one is. Ocato was right that no Legions could be recalled when he said that, but Adril and History of Raven Rock are not making things up when they say that eventually the Legions were recalled regardless. The page should be worded to reflect that, other than a condescending and biased 'some nobodies claim this happened, but they're stupid and obviously wrong'. I hope that makes some amount of sense.Feran Derethi (talk) 17:16, 13 February 2021 (UTC)

Events of Morrowind/Dialogue in Morrowind

Good afternoon! You appear to pay a lot of attention to the Great Houses of Morrowind. I figured I might as well pass on the knowledge of Morrowind:Generic Dialogue on to you to help you find more specific sources if you decide to do research for any Morrowind-related pages. A lot of our lore pages have citations like "Events of Morrowind" or "Dialogue in Morrowind" on them, and these citations are unacceptable because they're not specific enough. If you ever feel like digging (or you find something while playing the games), feel free to make those citations more specific. MW:Generic Dialogue is incomplete, but it should help you find the topics and responses for most subjects.

Thank you for contributing so much to our lore pages, and I hope the rest of your day is grand! -MolagBallet (talk) 23:43, 19 February 2021 (UTC)

Afternoon! As it happens, I had recently discovered that page (or collection of pages) and begun reading through it. I believe it will be a tremendously helpful tool for future edits, and I thank you for bringing it to my attention. I feel much the same way about generic citations like [events of game], and have been working to remove them from the pages I've worked on as time has gone by. Ironically, I was in the midst of doing just that when I received this message and will be posting soon. Thank you once more for the kind words, I am glad to have been able to help within Dunmer and Great House related pages, as they're what I consider to be within 'my area of expertise', heh. I hope your day is equally grand! -Feran Derethi (talk) 23:51, 19 February 2021 (UTC)