Lore talk:Nerevarine

Identity of the Nerevarine

I don't have a dog in this fight, so don't feel overly compelled to debate bro me. Folks are taking the male-only Nerevarine interpretation way too literally, due to the Neloth comment in the DLC.

The Nerevarine being referred to in the masculine sense makes a lot of sense. I think the Nerevarine would be remembered / revered in the masculine no matter what, he's the metaphysical Return of the King. That King was a dude, and you reincarnate from the dude king. Therefore, He. This notion is somewhat corroborated by the 36 Lessons line: "The ruling king is to stand against me and then before me. He is to learn from my punishment. I will mark him to know. He is to come as male or female." --TheRockWithAMedicineCupOnHisHead (talk) 03:39, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Just going to piggyback off of this to explain why I reverted. It is wiki policy that the status quo remains when a discussion regarding controversial page contents is ongoing. Per UESPWiki:Consensus: "In some cases, a discussion should be started and consensus established before any changes are made.". As there is very much not a consensus right now, please do not take away the genders on Hero pages. Mindtrait0r (talk) 13:14, 15 April 2024 (UTC)

Image

What source calls the image at the top of this page the Nerevarine? It is featured alongside several other images as generic npc renders for each playable race. As far as I can tell, this isn't meant to be the Nerevarine, its meant to be a representation of a generic Dunmer, hence why it may be on box art, the game takes place in Morrowind, the home of the Dunmer. Mindtrait0r (talk) 23:45, 22 August 2024 (UTC)

Oh, 100% it should be removed. In the manual it is described specifically as an example of a Dunmer, NOT as an example of the main character. Jeancey (talk) 16:30, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

I touched on this in a different discussion but the bonemold wearing, spiky hair Dunmer is definitely supposed to be the Nerevarine marketing mascot hence he is found in several different promo pieces and box art covers of the game in various different poses, and also why multiple anniversary art pieces commissioned by Bethesda depict the Nerevarine as this same Bonemold wearing, spiky dark haired male Dunmer. He is as much the mascot of tes 3 as the Imperial Guard armor wearing fellow from Oblivion and iron armor wearing fellow from Skyrim are their respective games mascots. Dcking20 (talk) 22:01, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

While it is probably that this image is was where the new images got the depiction, it is explicitly listed as "Dark Elf" and is listed among all the other race images. We should not be using that image as the Nerevarine image because that specific image was never intended to depict the Nerevarine. There are MANY other images used the Morrowind box art, including the Race images for Breton, Wood Elf, Khajiit, Argonian and Redguard. It is clear that they were just using the race images on the box, and because the province was the Dark Elf province, they put the Dark Elf race image on the back in a more prominent location. There's absolutely zero evidence that this image is supposed to be a depiction of the Nerevarine, and LOTS of evidence that it isn't. Jeancey (talk) 22:33, 10 October 2024 (UTC)

Hm, if you look online the general ethos of the community at large seems to agree that the Bonemold Dunmer is the Nerevarine (he’s basically always the one featured in little articles or YouTube thumbnails that talk about the Nerevarine or compare them to the Oblivion and Skyrim protags) granted I know we obviously need something stronger than just community vibes as a basis for stating as much on the wiki. I think the anniversary art commissions kinda satisfy that need though no? It seems as clear to me that the bonemold spiky haired Nerevarine from the commissioned pieces pull from the guy from the promo material of Tes 3, as the other two modern heroes are pulled from their promo material mascots. I know some other of these stock race guys are on some tes 3 cover art such as the katana wielding Altmer, but none are as frequently, or prominently displayed across various promo images or box art spots as the Bonemold Dunmer.Dcking20 (talk) 15:00, 11 October 2024 (UTC)

I'm not necessarily opposed to its inclusion due to Dcking20's reasoning. However, I have a caveat for that. I think we should explicitly mention it's a retcon, that it was not originally intended to be a solid representation of what the Nerevarine looks like (it's not even the default Dunmer player appearance in-game). The recent art also features a lot of bleed in from later games that shows issues with it are likely a sign of the artist(s) that made them not being super familiar with Morrowind itself. For example one of the pieces features the Nerevarine eating a sweetroll, when there are no sweetrolls in Morrowind. One of them seems to feature the Throat of the World in the background, and Red Mountain to the side. One has the Nerevarine dual wielding swords, and another wielding a spell in one hand with a sword in another (both game traits from Skyrim, not Morrowind). The 20th anniversary art has anachronisms like the appearance of a Dwarven Colossus, Vivec and Sotha Sil in their ESO outfits, and the appearance of an Elder Scroll for example.

So I would be okay with images being readded, with the caveat of notes explaining the retroactive nature of why they now count as depictions of the Nerevarine. They weren't really intended as depictions originally, but due to community usage of it as a stand-in of the Nerevarine later artists that worked for Bethesda used it for official depictions in the anniversary art, which featured numerous other indicators that they were less familiar with the Morrowind games directly. I'm also fine with them not being readded if that's the overall opinion on this. --AKB ^{Talk Cont Mail} 00:12, 13 October 2024 (UTC)